Lyle should make a connection between Mormonism and the 33 degree Masons, which was itself a takeover of lower Masons by Illuminists. The latter were debauched secret society anti-national elitists who worship Kabalah and Lucifer (Venus, the fallen star). There is an excellent chapter on this and the Germans (including later Rothschild-linked Germans) and the British, in Jim Marrs' mostly well done book: Rule by Secrecy. He doesn't mention Mormons (weird that he doesn't), but elsewhere people have exposed the links of the Mormons to secret-priesthood Illuminist Masons to the Mormons. A good place about Lucifer (Venus fallen star) imagery and Mormons, is: http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=986 ---- And the Mormons themselves have a page on Lucifer saying it created a problem for them: www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml ---- And there's the fact they're obsessed with creating a Zion homeland in North America, as Lyle says; but note that it's more transparent than Israel: not using Jewish cover but rather more direct Masonic symbols mixed with Old Testament fundamentalism and Jesus-following pretenses.
Hi...this is Lyle.I am aware that Joseph Smith was a Mason and essentially stole all of the Masonic symbolism that is used in the Mormon religion today.The Mormons are anti-Semitic and Freemasonry is based on the Judaic legends of the flood of Gilgamesh and the Jewish religion as documented in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Masonic lore teaches that the ancient lore of the stonemasons eventually resulted in a schism between "Egyptian" and "Jewish" views of this legend.Joseph Smith left the "tradition Jewish" view and adapted this "Egyptian" view of Masonic pre-history specifically because the Mormons are anti-Semitic. This is also what was really behind the ridiculous "Book of Abraham" scam perpetrated by Joseph Smith, when Smith purchased an Egyptian scroll and "translated" it into Mormon dogma (prior to the time that hieroglyphics were able to be read). This is the entire reason why Egyptian lore is so imbedded in Mormon theology. Because it is "not of the Jew" as traditional freemasonry is.
Hi, this is Clare. :) It seems to me that you say Smith gleaned much of his work from an Egyptian or pseudo-Egyptian tradition (through Freemasonry, which was a mix and re-creation, with POSSIBLY an original tie to Egypt as well). I can see that in it; but there is such a fundamentalist version of Old Testament Jewish (Hebrew-religion) in Mormonism, as well. This, I assume, is for the average person, and allows a kind of control and screen for the other stuff which hides in sometimes plain sight and sometimes is hidden. Is that your point? Best wishes!
I should add, you seem to be confused in thinking Freemasonry is NOT Egyptian (or pseudo-Egyptian and Babylonian or pseudo-Babylonian). In fact, Freemasonry is very full of the Kabbalah, yes, and full of all kinds of other touches as well. If you mean to suggest Freemasonry is "Jewish" because the early Jews got influenced (in part of their group) by the Babylonians and Egyptians, and this is "Judaism" is unfair. Christianity is no more "Greek religion" though it is one of the threads which made Christianity. So ... my point is that Freemasonry is a weird syncretic influence from within a TYPE of Judaism (or pseudo-Judaism recreation), and other religions as well. So ... Smith seems to be pulling from the Egyptian/Babylonian Freemasonry threads, moreso than the Jewish-influence threads. Freemasonry has ALL these thread. --- Though anyway, I wanted to ask you (as I said) whether you think the Judaism influence is used as a cover in Mormonism? [As they use Christianity too as a cover, for the more Egyptian (or pseudo) and Babylonian (or pseudo)?]
Part - 1Let me try to clarify....Joseph Smith was a Mason. And, he knew that Freemasonry was based on the Book of Enoch, which is part of the dead Sea Scrolls and was not included by the Catholic Church in the Christian version of the Bible. Joseph Smith was very well aware that Freemasonry and Christianity came out of Jewish lore and the Jewish religion.The Book of Enoch details the pre-history of the World, which was destroyed in 8,000 BC by a comet, and again in 3000BC by yet another comet. As it turns out, the civilization that was wiped out by the comet (8,000 BC) was the REAL "Lost Tribe of Isreal", which lived at the time in what is now Ireland and England. As a result of that impact, the "Lost Tribe" was forced to migrate to what is now modern day Egypt, and transferred their knowledge to the Egyptions, which formed the basis for the rise of ancient Egyptian civilition.The "Flood of Gilgamesh" as documented in the Book of Enoch actually documents the second comet (3,000 BC) and the ensuing flood that ocurred after the comet impacted in the Mediteranean Sea, and destroyed much of the culture in Egypt and Mesopotamia at that time.The entire basis of freemasonry is to carry on this secret knowledge of this "pre-history" of the world. Further, freemasonry began in Scotland and was founded by the Jewish remnants of the Irish and Scotts who claim to be actual descnedants of the ancient Druids who were the original Jewish inhabitants of Ireland and Scotland prior to the comet impact of 8,000 BC.All of this in turn forms the basis of what is known as "British Isrealism", which evolved into the "Christian Identity" movement in modern day America today. British Israelism is the lore that all of the royals of Ireland, Scotland and England are actual the descendants of the "Lost Tribe of Isreal", and that in the final days, when the Jewish temple is restored in Isreal, a member of British Royal will be kinged the "New King of Isreal". It is important to know that the Book of Enoch is Jewish, and forms the basis for today's freemasonry, which is also Jewish in origin.
Part - 2Hence, since Joseph Smith always was an avowed anti-Semite and anti-Black, he could not and would not adopt the "Book of Enoch" history of the world because of its ties to the Jew. Consequently, he specifically formed a new religion and "sect" of freemasonry that would erase any and all references to Jewish culture and Jewish "Pre-history", and create a new religion, integrating Freemasonry, that would be devoid of "The Jew". Hence, the Mormon religion was strategically created as a warped and non-traditional view of the world, according to an 1830 white supremacist who refused to accept the "mainstream" view of Christianity and Freemasonry. The little-known Mormon "Doctrine of Cain" teaches that the Jews are the illegitimate spawn of Cain and Satan, and that the Jews are the illegitimate spawn of the Jews and the "Beasts of the Fields. This is actually original Mormon theology, which all of the Christian Identity Groups propagate and teach today. Further, all of the founders of the major Christian Identity Groups today are Mormon or Mormon fundamentalists. Mormons and Mormon fundamentaiists founded The Order, The Aryan Nations (AKA Church of Jesus Christ Christian), The Aryan Republican Army, The Covenant the Arm and the Sword of the Lord and the Church of Isreal. Every one of these groups were involved in the propagation of violence against the United States. Their reason is because America is corrupt because it is based on Judeo-Christian Law, which was derived from British Common Law, which in turn was derived from the ancient Greek City States, which in turn took their law directly from Jerusalem.Consequently, all of these white supremacist neo-Nazi groups believe in the violent overthrow of the American Government simply because its laws are "of the Jew". More specifically, Smith's prophecy of "Daniel's Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days" teaches that God took "The Priesthood" away from the Jews specifically because the Jews forsook "God's Laws" for the "Laws of Man". And, this same prophecy also provides the explanation for why the Jews have been downtrodden, smitten and are "a scoff and a byword" in every nation they've inhabited. So there you go....its as craay as Charles Manson's Helter Skelter. And, the Mormons are terrified that this TRUTH might ever come to light. There is a reason why they first tried bribing me and then threatened my life on 6 different occasions.
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Hi, Lyle! I posted my comments but screwed up the order of the postings. (I copied and pasted from a pre-written copy.) So ... here it is properly:Dear Lyle, thank you for your full comments! Some of this I was aware of, some not. However, though this is how you see it right now, may I ask your patience in what I am about to suggest?We know the British tribes had a tradition that they were the real descendants both of Christ's true teachings (the Joseph of Arimathea tale) and of the Israel lost tribe.There are several ways to interpret this and several ways it may have come about.a) These pre- and early Mediaevals were obsessed with origins. Origins are memory and cultural identity. They are clannishness in the bad sense and in the good sense. (Ayaan Hirsi Ali makes this point about current Islamist tribal behaviours in Africa at least, and perhaps in Arabia.)When the Bible became known to them, they identified with its tales and would have sought to place themselves into it.
ON THE OTHER HAND,b) The Irish/Scottish Celts were Phoenicians. Yes, they came from that region, in two waves at least. Now this does not mean they didn't have other intersociations as well, but they came from Asia Minor through the sea.In being such (as modern philology and pottery/historical text studies show), they are in a sense a Semitic group. They may have had their own tales. What would they have been? That they traded and came from Palestine, Tyre, and so on.If this was seeded already and the Biblical tradition was an encrustation on their tales and thinking, they might very well have focussed their half-ecclesiastical and half-traditional tribal history around the dual role of their ancestors ... as barbarians (to the Christian mind) and as lordly lost people (for pride AND as a remnant of their ancient history as Phoenicians)
PLUS,c) The British monarch (now German Windsor-Hanover line) would have also sought to abrogate political power to her/himself by claiming links to this tradition, whether openly (early on) or in secret societies (later).AND,d) The Masonic tradition was seeded through the influence of the dispersed Templar power magnates, if we look at the Zeno narrative (and Michael Bradley's Canadian connection to that) and at the symbols of the early Rosslyn tombstones -- much later in date than the Templar dispersal but the link is strong nevertheless.Yes, they were "mere knights" but they were also a tradition of Jerusalem takeover ... they were the knights to acquire and conquer Jerusalem --- for the "new" (old revived) Zion.In their minds were they Christians? Some would say obviously so. But in other senses they, like modern top-level cultists in Christianity and Judaism (and Buddhism for that matter) consider themselves something not only more aware/enlightened than the masses, but actually something quite different, with secrets almost completely not suggested in the rituals for the masses.
NOW TOO,e) Some people consider Velikovsky "debunked", though like the term "perp", "shill", or "agent", this term "debunked" is thrown around with such alacrity today that I ask you to consider his works in their own merit in spite of the label "debunked").Velikovsky did predict a huge amount but also CRITICAL features of solar system behaviour before anyone would have connected these dots. Some of his predictions were technically already discovered or suggested by other scientists, but they did not connect those discoveries to any meaning or predictable outcomes and were discoveries not well known.Velikovsky expanded what was known and predicted more, and had a reason for doing so and was RIGHT in his predictions of the DYNAMIC interactions of the features of our solar system.The issue was: mega-catastrophism and planetary latecomers to our solar system. Even if Venus and Saturn and Mars did NOT move around, something discharged their electromagnetic reactions at some point, if ancient texts and many hints from our geologic beds are true. A comet would not do this.A Planet X interfering or an Oort Cloud with disruptive effects would.
ALSO,f) The Egyptian traditions are linked directly to Sumer. The idea that they were seeded by a much older sea-faring nation is tantalizing, but seems unsupportable ... if only as a TOTAL picture.The main histories seem to come from Sumer.But ... and this is an interesting tantalizing thing ... perhaps BOTH Sumer and early Egypt were seeded by the antediluvian culture.In this case, the Celts and their predecessors too (the "dark peoples") could have been remnants of this lost culture, as well: the Celts coming from the Phoenician/Sumerian tradition (lost tribe of Israel); the "dark peoples" (Picts, Albas -- see Farley Mowat's brilliant exploratory romp, "The Farfarers" for this theory) being native but also with traditions they were from a lost land (Mu, I believe it was).The Egyptians believed they came on boats and the earliest drawings are of boats (in the Sinai, I think, or close by -- it's been a while since I read this stuff!).But boats from where? The edgiest current generally known theories right now are that they came from Sumer, or their traditions did.And this would be fine, except as you suggest, they may also have been seeded intellectually by pre-Phoenicians (sailors from Sumer but travelling to the British Isles)?
AS IT HAPPENS, OF COURSE,g) Secret societies AND main-line religions intersociate in various ways at various points in history. And what people make of the old tales changes too. Such tales for each researcher would be increasingly garbled to start, even when the researcher was working from tales and thoughts which had been written down (for contrary points of view pile up over time).THE UPSHOT IS,h) There is a special "Israelist" or "Zionist" branch out of Britain and it is not Jewish in the modern sense. It is also linked now to continental "spiritual geopoliticking" as well. I call this stuff spiritual geopoliticking because that's the driving vision behind the geopolitics for some of these power magnates and cultists.So I agree with you there is a strong "Zionist" revival that has NOTHING to do with Judaism as we know it ... in fact is antithetical to it. And not merely -- as many anti-Zionist Jews think -- not merely because it is a horrible racist and culturally supremacist doctrine, against the dictates of Love, but also because it is not even from modern Jewish tradition directly.No, as you, critically -- and Smith and other cultists of various ilks, approvingly -- have pointed out, this Zionism or Israelism of apocalytic reclamation of lands from the antediluvian or just post-diluvian periods is an obsession of people who are not primarily Jewish in any modern sense. They are people who accurately or inaccurately believe they came from the time BEFORE the Jews rose as a nation of Abraham.
IN CONCLUSION, THEN,i) Both the Jewish histories (through Kabbalah and Enoch and Genesis so on) have some memory of the antediluvian period and feel entitled as a people over others and over the lands in the Palestine area ...AND the British and secret society histories have this belief.And they are different strains of memory or pseudo-memory, each competing mostly out of sight. We see their wars but think they're about something else.FINALLY:j) First, thank you for mentioning the British Israel tradition (whatever it truly derives from and whatever people at the "top" currently think it means and act on).AND:k) I would like to thank you very much for wading through the Mormon re-telling -- itself a mish-mash of wishful thinking and ancient secrets, themselves a mish-mash.:)P.S. Remember please that it's better to know we don't know the whole truth of some of this stuff, and neither do the creeps and cultists and ancient historians we are working from. So it's best not to say "these peoples went here" or whatever, but that we think, or they thought, or a LINE of occult history claims ...Thanks. Again. For all your work!!!!! Amazing foray. And for bringing up your secret book experience, the 19th-century one now unavailable, about the Mormons.
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